Meeting 26 November 2005 In attendance Barry White BW Hilary White HW a person introduced as Brian Mc Caffrey? and Petitioner
This is an almost complete transcript from the meeting -2 full tapes and one quarter complete – are available to confirm the details This meeting was the result a letter the Petitioner sent 12 days earlier The Petitioner got a phone call from Barry White at approx 10.20 that morning to set up a meeting that afternoon, The Petitioner told him the meeting would be taped with the petitioner’s Dictaphone as the petitioner knew he would stonewall on the matter as he did originally 15 September 2004
Petitioner initially refused to let the said Brian Mc Caffrey into the house as Barry White introduced his as a psychiatrist Hilary White said he could go to into another room Petitioner said it was a small house there were no other rooms Petitioner said Brian Mc Caffrey could leave, he said he come with the others otherwise he would have to sit in the car Petitioner gave him that option or offered a short cut back to the dart station which the said Brian Mc Caffrey refused to avail of In the end after a discussion of about seven minutes on the doorstep Petitioner told the said Brian Mc Caffrey if he came into her house if it was in a personal capacity which the said Brian Mc Caffrey agreed to
It turned out that the real Brian Mc Caffrey was 5ft 4 inches in height grey hair slight build and aged late sixties according to a description sought by the petitioner In January 2007 from his neighbour and his local newsagent whereas the person who called to the house and was introduced by Barry White as Brian Mc Caffrey in November 2005 was 5ft 10 inches in height heavy build dark haired and aged late forties early fifties The petitioner had gone to get a description of the said Brian Mc Caffrey at the the suggestion of the petitioner’s solicitor at the time who said “go and sit outside his registered address and see when he comes out is he the person who called to your house” Well that is what the Petitioner did however he never came outside his registered address not did he answer his doorbell which the Lay Litigant who was with the petitioner rang That is why the Petitioner looked for a description from Brian Mc Caffrey’s neighbour and local newsagent
The Petitioner turned on the Dictaphone and put it on the coffee table in the middle of the room Then Petitioner started to read from the list of questions and Barry White asked to see a copy Petitioner was reluctant to give to a copy and when the Petitioner asked for its return at the end of the meeting Barry White refused to hand it back
Are you the father of Annette White buried in the Angels Plot Glasnevin Cemetery? August 1958 Petitioner
No BW
Is Hilary White the mother? Petitioner
No BW
If that is so why did Kevin White give the names of the parents as Peter and Francis White Petitioner
Don’t know BW
Have you Petitioner made any effort to contact the Coombe BMcC
I have and I have their reply Petitioner
Could I see it BMcC
The petitioner ignored the request
Is Hilary your cousin? Petitioner
No BW
Is Geraldine Kennealy her mother? Petitioner
No BW
Is Nicholas her twin brother? Petitioner
No BW
Is Cliona White a full sister to the late Annette White? Petitioner
No BW
Were Margaret Murray and Eileen Murray Bligh* the children of Desmond Murray Roebuck Park house and Emily G White born 2/3 February 1959? Petitioner
At that point the Petitioner had not got the death certificate of Eileen Murray Bligh as it was not relevant, The petitioner subsequently got it. That woman was a 76 year old spinster who died in 1968 Evelyn Murray was the other twin died in 1961
No BW
Did your mother contest the will? Petitioner
No BW
Jacqueline Rochford Belcher was appointed administrator in January 1989? Who is she? Was that a persona for your mother? Petitioner
You have obviously been to the probate office BW
I have Petitioner
The will was subsequently contested on 11 September 1989? On behalf of a named witness Margaret Murray. Who contested the case? Petitioner
Nothing Happened BW
Who supported the claim? Petitioner
Nothing Happened BW
Those answers did not make sense Petitioner
Did you appear in court or swear any form of affidavit on behalf of the deceased Margaret Murray? Petitioner
You are focussing on Brian BW
That is the way I was trained Petitioner
The Petitioner’s training was based on someone who always told them to access the capabilites of the people they would be meeting and that is what the petitioner was doing with the said Brain Mc Caffrey as they focussing on him
What consultant was called to declare the ill health of the deceased Margaret Murray? Was it Hugh Staunton? Petitioner
No BW
If so on what basis? Given that the Murray twins were now both dead Petitioner
No BW
.
Was the petitioner the person put forward as Margaret Murray. If so why was the petitioner not called to court? Petitioner
No BW
Who won the case? Petitioner
Don’t know BW
Is my natural mother Louise Walshe a lesbian ? Is she in a relationship with any of your sisters Derval or Niamh White Petitioner
No BW
Could I see the letter from the Coombe BMcC
The petitioner went upstairs to take down my file on this fraud and showed it to the letter to the said Brian Mc Caffrey
The petitioner took downstairs some extra Dictaphone tapes with them
The hospital would not release the Para of the child and the age of the mother as the petitioner would need the permission of the natural mother and given that your mother was registered on the birth details of 1966 registration as the mother of the child born in 1957 that would be a hard thing to do Petitioner
I will give you permission to see the records I am her daughter HW
Now the person purporting to be Brain McCaffrey did not seem to know what Para meant, so the Petitioner had to explain to what was supposed to be a qualified doctor what that meant. The first or subsequent child As the petitoner believed the records would show that the Para was the first and the age of the mother 15 years showing who the real mother of that child was Hilary White
Did Louise Walshe/Annie White ever make any attempt to contact the petitioner throughout the nineties. If so what happened the letters? Petitioner
No BW Did your mother Emily G White aka Jacqueline Rushleigh Belcher live off that income from the 1989 court case and the 1994 Probate submission for the rest of her life? Petitioner
No BW
How much did she spend? Petitioner
No BW
What happened the letter the petitioner believes Emily G White left with Stephen Maher for their attention, to be given to the petitioner after she died? Petitioner
No BW
As Garda Sean Allen said to the Petioner in Summer 2004 “Did she not leave you letter telling you all of this” The Petitioner’s response was well if she left me a letter I did not get it”
How much did Niamh Derval and Cliona White get in January 2003 when they perpetrated fraud using my corrct birth details and another surname? Petitioner
Nothing happened BW
How much did they spend? Petitioner
Nothing happened BW
Who else knew about the fraud at that time? Petitioner
Nothing happened BW
When did you Mr Justice White find out? Petitioner
Nothing happened BW
What did you do to cover it up? Petitioner
Nothing happened BW
Why did you cover it up? Why didn’t you tell me? Petitioner
Nothing happened BW
Did you approach Padraig Cronin in September 2003 If so on what basis did you do so? Petitioner
Nothing happened BW
Why did you never tell the petitioner that the Deloitte trust existed? Petitioner
Nothing happened BW
Are you telling the petitioner Barry White you have never set foot in the Deloitte building you have never met Padriag Cronin or any staff member of Deloitte Petitioner
I don’t even know where Deloitte is BW
It is opposite UCD Earlsfort Terrace Petitioner
You mean the Concert Hall HW
Barry White attended college at Earlsfort Terrace he should know where it is located Petitioner
Having paid back the money to KPMG/ Redmond’s what happened the rest of the money? Petitioner
Nothing happened BW
Did it go into a bank account in AIB 101 Grafton Street under the business name Catriona Walshe? With the main beneficiary been the petitioner Petitioner
Nothing happened BW
Who were the trustees? On what basis were trustees appointed? Petitioner
No BW
How much money went into the account in September 2003? Petitioner
Nothing happened BW
How much money is left 26 months later? Petitioner
Nothing happened BW
Who am I actually renting this house from? Petitioner
Your landlord BW
As I would like to see the title deeds to see who the previous owner was prior to Maurice Sherling Petitioner
You are not entitled to see those BW
Once I see those it will show me who the previous owner is if there was one Petitioner
As any person I spoke to in respect of this fraud including Tom Day Lisneys and the Detective Sean Allen asked me do you not own the house you live in? Petitioner
Have you read Petitioner your lease BW
Who sold the house to Mr Sherling? Petitioner
Have you read your lease BW
When I changed the locks to the hall door in June 2004? Having come back from a walk to find a heavy smell of perfume in the house. Did you or any member of the White family get a duplicate key and if so from whom? Petitioner
No BW
Why were you evasive with me 15 September 2004? Petitioner
I wasn’t BW
You were Petitioner
Why did you not tell me the truth? Petitioner
I did BW
You did not Petitioner
The person purporting to be Brian Mc Caffrey made few one of his few interventions at thid point he appeared to want to change the subject he asked about the drudgery jobs the petitioner had lost since they had moved to the current house as to what the petitioner felt was the reason. The Petitioner said the first loss was down to a demoted manager as the Petitioner had told their line manager they was taking the afternoon off, and had th eeline manager’s permission however the demoted manager also wanted to be informed. The second the Petitioner did not knowpsoosble to doi with the fact the backlog had been cleared and the work was then only part time however the company had emplyed a full time person and the third down to a multinational looking for cheaper overseas labour and closing down a department and therefore the temporary staff would be let go first
Why were you passing me on the Dun Laoghaire Pier three times October 2005? What did you mean by the indication of rubbing you nose? Petitioner
I have not been walking there for months BW
Do you have contact details for a representative of my natural parents? Petitioner
No BW
If so can I have the contact details please? Petitioner
I don’t have any BW
What age were you when you started school BW
I don’t know Petitioner
When did you make your first communion BW
Five the same as my grandmother Petitioner
That was very young BW
Who is your grandmother HW
I knew her as my Aunt Kate Petitioner
There is a picture of you and Mary Angela in the front sitting room HW
That picture is not of me it was taken in late summer early Autumn 1959 could have been August 1959 printed on the slide Petitioner
That is a picture of the Murray twins Petitioner
Kate was my mother’s sister HW
She was not she was her first cousin Petitioner
Who was her mother HW
Emily Mc Hugh Petitioner
And who her father HW
Pierce Brosnan Petitioner
Do you mean the actor HW
No, he was an RIC officer who was transferred to Dublin after the birth of my grandmother and he died in 1911 in an IRA skirmish he is buried up in the Dublin Metropolitan Police Plot in Glasnevin cemetry The plot is beautifully maintained Petitioner
Have there been any negotiations on this fraud? If so for how long? and what is the end result? Petitioner
No BW
- If your answers to all of these questions are stonewalling or evasive are you prepared to take bloods against me? Petitioner
Yes if you pay for them HW
I have no money Petiitoner
- Do you hold a full file on me relating to all these matters? If so I would like it Petitioner
No BW
As the meeting ended after one and three quarter hours the person purporting to be Brian Mc Caffrey told the petitioner he worked in a social capacity for Focus Ireland so he knew what it was like to be homeless and if the petitioner ever wanted to talk to him about anything they could. The Petitioner said “I will not be taking you up on that offer” As the three went out the door Hilary White asked the Petitioner to put on my outside light The Petitioner said it is already on